Yes, she does! And I absolutely agree that men know what they're doing and can take more accountability at the individual relationship level. I also think that no one is going to take this work seriously until we have a broader social reckoning about its value.
Testify! It is so maddening that this continues to be a problem. My own husband ends up feeling guilty about it but still not taking on the mental load, let alone a lot of the physical load. It only (kind of) works because we don't have kids and hire house cleaners to clean our house every two weeks. But still ...
Maddening indeed! There's absolutely less complexity without kids but I know so many couples without kids or with grown kids that still grapple with these issues.
Good for your beloved that he knows to feel guilty! My husband retired so he does everything now, and I LOVE it. I’m going to work forever so this pattern continues, for us.
Yes — and, it doesn't really help me, or him, for him to feel guilty. Taking action would be far more effective. ;-) Anyway, it sounds like you have a great plan, lol!
Gawd I couldn’t believe that that “thought bubble” thing was actually in the article so I had to go look it up. It’s so infuriating for all the reasons you cite. “It’s not domestic labor inequity! It’s a story in my head!” It almost harkens back to the 19th century “diagnosis” of female hysteria.
Oh yes, female hysteria/"craziness" is still rampantly used as an excuse to discredit us when we talk about these issues. You should see some of the comments I used to get on Medium :)
The demise of my marriage stems fully from this dynamic. Not only was I working full time, I was solely responsible for all the house shit, the mental labor (planning, etc), and the family stuff (remembering family birthdays, buying gifts, etc). He mowed the lawn, took the garbage out, and did periodic house projects (painting, etc).
It worked though.
Then we had a baby.
Once the baby was born, I was solely responsible for him too. My ex would sometimes hold him in the evenings when he chilled after dinner watching TV, but he never changed a diaper, never gave him a bath, etc. Maybe that was my fault for not suggesting? Not pushing for that?
The resentment built up inside me over time becuz I was exhausted. When I pointed this out to him, he minimized it. I only had 1 child. I had an office job. I worked from home 2 of the 5 days. Why was getting dinner ready every day such a problem? Why did I expect him to help when he did the outside chores?
He was always saying I was crazy, and when he left, it was becuz I ‘beat him down’.
When I pointed out it sounded like he expected a housewife, he agreed that he did! But I was the primary breadwinner! He wanted me to be both, and to be ok with that. But I wasn’t.
After he left, of course, my responsibilities increased for sure and financially it was harder, but mentally, I found it easier to handle it all without a grown capable man in my line of vision every day not noticing my efforts and not stepping up to share in the burdens of life. He wanted a mother, a housewife, a breadwinner, as well as a partner. I couldn’t do all of that though. I wanted to be partners, the way we started out. I thought we had that, but once I became a mother, it all changed completely.
I just finished raising a teenager, and our household rule was One Ear In, One Ear Out, for several reasons. One was because these can have long-term effect on hearing, and switching ears helps minimize that. The other was so ::ahems angrily:: he could hear me when I called for or spoke to him. Even on a road trip last summer, this late-teen had the courtesy to warn me if he was going to put in both - and he was in the passenger seat as I drove.
They make a little more sense paired in loud places (like public trans), or when one needs to concentrate (studying or working) in a busy environment, but at home, they just shut out the people we live with, whom we’re supposed to love. And they’d be so easy to weaponize. Mister in the cute little story gets no pass from me.
This is such a good point. I can't recall a single time when I sat in my house with earbuds and the volume up so loud I couldn't hear someone calling from another room. That says a lot in and of itself!
I feel frustrated about this use of language as well. Watching your thoughts and noticing where a physical experience is beginning to generate a narrative that is perhaps causing additional harm is helpful inner work to do. But it’s not compassionate or skillful for someone else to say that because there is a narrative that goes with your physical experience, your physical experience (ie of exhaustion, being forced into underpaid or unpaid labor, being subject to abuse or neglect) is not real. If you are committed to misunderstanding or dismissing someone to maintain your comfort, what you are saying is that your own unreal story (they deserve x, you deserve y) is more important than their real suffering. Whereas if you love someone, you will care about their suffering and want to ease it, however imperfectly articulated.
Mine didn’t. He was working. A good part of the time oblivious to the details of our children. Like dude? What’s their teachers name? Doctor? And ours had a whole team of supports because they are autistic.
Well, that sucks, and I'm truly sorry about it for you. But we also have to acknowledge there are a LOT of shitty mothers/wives out there, and, conversely, some great husbands/fathers. Further, this emotional labor/mental load stuff is certainly not exclusive to women, if we are insisting on paying attention to it at all.
What is your point? I'm pretty sure your "whataboutism" comment is meant to belittle, shame, and shut down any conversation about this specifically from women. Your comment proves you think women, and by extension, all the things they do for their families, are inconsequential and unnecessary.
It's really hard to believe that men have any sort of mental load when article after article, conversation after conversation, men consistently tell everyone in plain language, the only things they care about are sex, food, and sports. Oh, and not looking like a "pussy."
I agree with you. So much relationship conflict is not about miscommunication but rather missed expectations and different values and priorities (which you touch on systemically with how little our culture values household work). I’ll also add that putting the pressure on women to “fix” communication mishaps, adds to the mental load of figuring out how everything needs to get done. I value your work! Thanks for sharing!
Yeah, all these “I statement” things are only going to “work” on someone who will take them in. An ex-spouse is not a likely listener. I wonder if outright declarations wouldn’t be a better way. “I won’t be doing all this housework anymore.” “Here’s what I need you to do: …” “I’m going to take Tuesday for myself and won’t be doing any chores so don’t ask.” Etc.
I'm with you 1000%!! If I get into another partnership, I don't think it will include co-habitation. At least not for the first 3-5 years. These men need to show me they're not looking for a mommy to take everything on for them. I'm not interested in doing that again.
You may want to check out the book "Why Does He Do That?" By Dr. Lundy Bancroft. He talks a lot about how couples counseling can't address entitled beliefs systems.
Zawn Villanes does a wonderful job of pointing out this issue too!
And unfortunately, men do know what they’re doing when it comes to this.
Yes, she does! And I absolutely agree that men know what they're doing and can take more accountability at the individual relationship level. I also think that no one is going to take this work seriously until we have a broader social reckoning about its value.
Oh ffs
Testify! It is so maddening that this continues to be a problem. My own husband ends up feeling guilty about it but still not taking on the mental load, let alone a lot of the physical load. It only (kind of) works because we don't have kids and hire house cleaners to clean our house every two weeks. But still ...
Maddening indeed! There's absolutely less complexity without kids but I know so many couples without kids or with grown kids that still grapple with these issues.
Good for your beloved that he knows to feel guilty! My husband retired so he does everything now, and I LOVE it. I’m going to work forever so this pattern continues, for us.
Yes — and, it doesn't really help me, or him, for him to feel guilty. Taking action would be far more effective. ;-) Anyway, it sounds like you have a great plan, lol!
It’s a lucky chapter of life right now. There have been many, many arguments over the years.
Gawd I couldn’t believe that that “thought bubble” thing was actually in the article so I had to go look it up. It’s so infuriating for all the reasons you cite. “It’s not domestic labor inequity! It’s a story in my head!” It almost harkens back to the 19th century “diagnosis” of female hysteria.
Oh yes, female hysteria/"craziness" is still rampantly used as an excuse to discredit us when we talk about these issues. You should see some of the comments I used to get on Medium :)
The demise of my marriage stems fully from this dynamic. Not only was I working full time, I was solely responsible for all the house shit, the mental labor (planning, etc), and the family stuff (remembering family birthdays, buying gifts, etc). He mowed the lawn, took the garbage out, and did periodic house projects (painting, etc).
It worked though.
Then we had a baby.
Once the baby was born, I was solely responsible for him too. My ex would sometimes hold him in the evenings when he chilled after dinner watching TV, but he never changed a diaper, never gave him a bath, etc. Maybe that was my fault for not suggesting? Not pushing for that?
The resentment built up inside me over time becuz I was exhausted. When I pointed this out to him, he minimized it. I only had 1 child. I had an office job. I worked from home 2 of the 5 days. Why was getting dinner ready every day such a problem? Why did I expect him to help when he did the outside chores?
He was always saying I was crazy, and when he left, it was becuz I ‘beat him down’.
When I pointed out it sounded like he expected a housewife, he agreed that he did! But I was the primary breadwinner! He wanted me to be both, and to be ok with that. But I wasn’t.
After he left, of course, my responsibilities increased for sure and financially it was harder, but mentally, I found it easier to handle it all without a grown capable man in my line of vision every day not noticing my efforts and not stepping up to share in the burdens of life. He wanted a mother, a housewife, a breadwinner, as well as a partner. I couldn’t do all of that though. I wanted to be partners, the way we started out. I thought we had that, but once I became a mother, it all changed completely.
The earbud vignette hit particularly hard.
I just finished raising a teenager, and our household rule was One Ear In, One Ear Out, for several reasons. One was because these can have long-term effect on hearing, and switching ears helps minimize that. The other was so ::ahems angrily:: he could hear me when I called for or spoke to him. Even on a road trip last summer, this late-teen had the courtesy to warn me if he was going to put in both - and he was in the passenger seat as I drove.
They make a little more sense paired in loud places (like public trans), or when one needs to concentrate (studying or working) in a busy environment, but at home, they just shut out the people we live with, whom we’re supposed to love. And they’d be so easy to weaponize. Mister in the cute little story gets no pass from me.
This is such a good point. I can't recall a single time when I sat in my house with earbuds and the volume up so loud I couldn't hear someone calling from another room. That says a lot in and of itself!
Ugh. It’s giving “now I don’t even have to go out in the shed/basement to ignore her. Woot woot!”
great article
Yes! Yes! Yes! All of this!
Yes, exactly. I’m glad I’ve unsubscribed fr NYT as this is a ridiculous lens they are using. We are not making this up!!!!
I feel frustrated about this use of language as well. Watching your thoughts and noticing where a physical experience is beginning to generate a narrative that is perhaps causing additional harm is helpful inner work to do. But it’s not compassionate or skillful for someone else to say that because there is a narrative that goes with your physical experience, your physical experience (ie of exhaustion, being forced into underpaid or unpaid labor, being subject to abuse or neglect) is not real. If you are committed to misunderstanding or dismissing someone to maintain your comfort, what you are saying is that your own unreal story (they deserve x, you deserve y) is more important than their real suffering. Whereas if you love someone, you will care about their suffering and want to ease it, however imperfectly articulated.
The toll of the emotional labor is worth millions over time. I think my tired is permanent at this point.
Do the men in these scenarios not also carry emotional labor?
Mine didn’t. He was working. A good part of the time oblivious to the details of our children. Like dude? What’s their teachers name? Doctor? And ours had a whole team of supports because they are autistic.
Well, that sucks, and I'm truly sorry about it for you. But we also have to acknowledge there are a LOT of shitty mothers/wives out there, and, conversely, some great husbands/fathers. Further, this emotional labor/mental load stuff is certainly not exclusive to women, if we are insisting on paying attention to it at all.
What is your point? I'm pretty sure your "whataboutism" comment is meant to belittle, shame, and shut down any conversation about this specifically from women. Your comment proves you think women, and by extension, all the things they do for their families, are inconsequential and unnecessary.
It's really hard to believe that men have any sort of mental load when article after article, conversation after conversation, men consistently tell everyone in plain language, the only things they care about are sex, food, and sports. Oh, and not looking like a "pussy."
Part of the point was to articulate that many women just complain. And your unhinged ranting at 4:37 AM bolsters that point.
Ever heard of time zones?
I agree with you. So much relationship conflict is not about miscommunication but rather missed expectations and different values and priorities (which you touch on systemically with how little our culture values household work). I’ll also add that putting the pressure on women to “fix” communication mishaps, adds to the mental load of figuring out how everything needs to get done. I value your work! Thanks for sharing!
Yeah, all these “I statement” things are only going to “work” on someone who will take them in. An ex-spouse is not a likely listener. I wonder if outright declarations wouldn’t be a better way. “I won’t be doing all this housework anymore.” “Here’s what I need you to do: …” “I’m going to take Tuesday for myself and won’t be doing any chores so don’t ask.” Etc.
I'm with you 1000%!! If I get into another partnership, I don't think it will include co-habitation. At least not for the first 3-5 years. These men need to show me they're not looking for a mommy to take everything on for them. I'm not interested in doing that again.
You may want to check out the book "Why Does He Do That?" By Dr. Lundy Bancroft. He talks a lot about how couples counseling can't address entitled beliefs systems.
He has a great blog too: https://lundybancroft.com/
Your writing makes me comfortably uncomfortable. Reminded me that the equity conversation at home needs constant revisiting.